tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312853715123370916.post7942812351107692596..comments2024-03-17T00:10:44.022+00:00Comments on From Arse To Elbow: Memories Are Made of ThisDavid Timoneyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03568348438980023320noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312853715123370916.post-6469082719728468762014-12-09T17:22:07.334+00:002014-12-09T17:22:07.334+00:00Maybe the club culture is overrated or eventually ...Maybe the club culture is overrated or eventually dies out. Liverpool had it, in that they would promote from within and not get some 'star name' and the coaching staff were a permanent fixture behind the scenes schooled in the clubs philosophy. Barcelona, Ajax are other examples of this.<br /><br />I am not saying this is a better approach to a Mourinho, what I am saying is that this is how I would judge the success of failure of Wenger, because this is his argument, I may not have trophies but I have created something. if all that goes up in smoke within a couple of years then i think Wenger can be judged a failure. So I am specifically avoiding saying Wenger is a failure over lack of trophies. Though that must be a criteria for a big club, surely?Herbie Kills Childrennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312853715123370916.post-6745123603601709362014-12-09T15:20:12.491+00:002014-12-09T15:20:12.491+00:00I'd agree about Wenger having changed Arsenal&...I'd agree about Wenger having changed Arsenal's style of play, but I'd argue that this was a slower process with something of a 'transitional' stage. The defensive base stayed very similar in Wenger's early years and the impact of Anelka, Wiltord and mainly Henry up front, and Viera box-to-box in midfield, enabled them to play what I would regard as a fast counter-attacking game in the 1997-early 2000s period. This was also backed up, I'd argue (you're likely to differ!) with something of a spoiling game, with time-wasting injury-faking and the infamous unwitnessed sendings-off. Ferguson and Wenger did have some similarities!<br />I think that it is in the last 10 years that the possession style has really emerged, almost developing into a bit of a caricature at times with attempts to seemingly try and pass the ball into the net. <br />The 1998 title was the interesting one for me, in that it came quite soon in Wenger's reign and clearly involved an adaptation of Arsenal's 'old guard' with the imported quality of the likes of Bergkamp, Viera, Overmars and Anelka, and quite a few fillers in like Wreh, Grimandi and Platt. Maybe it represents an era before the advanced plutocracy of today when such a squad could win the championship. Igor Belanovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312853715123370916.post-17648925995622042482014-12-09T14:41:27.247+00:002014-12-09T14:41:27.247+00:00I think you're right that club cultures are ov...I think you're right that club cultures are over-stated (Manure's "swashbuckling" style is just bullying less well-resourced teams), however I think Wenger is unusual in having managed to change the playing style of Arsenal, from essentially defence-oriented to attack-oriented. Doing this is not unknown among lower level clubs, but it is rare at the top level, both because of the limited terms of most managers and because large clubs have greater institutional inertia.<br /><br />I agree that when Wenger does go, and his successor is under pressure to "be different", this may jeopardise the club's ability to finish in the top 4, but I think this will be offset by the greater resources and thus squad depth. I think this also explains why Wenger intends to stick around til 2017, to prove that getting the club back into contention for the title is ultimately down to money.David Timoneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03568348438980023320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312853715123370916.post-30810032745748649282014-12-09T09:07:01.952+00:002014-12-09T09:07:01.952+00:00I think all the talk about 'club cultures'...I think all the talk about 'club cultures' and styles of play is overstated. Barcelona's success is more due to the fact that they are incredibly wealthy and can afford to hold on to their stars while acquiring new talent.<br /><br />The problem with 'cultures' is that to be really successful they are dependent on a certain body of players, and when that group ages or breaks up there are real problems renewing it. Spain's performance in the World Cup was some evidence of this. Arsenal's problem is that 'culture' can only get them so far and, without the vast riches to fill the gaps, they will fall short of the real plutocrats. As far as I can see, the only alternative is that the 'challenging' teams fit their styles round the players they've got and can afford to acquire. This is basically how Atletico Madrid have achieved their recent success. The issue is that for a club like Arsenal this type of strategy, which often involves taking a punt on an unsung manager, can risk the kind of 'failure' that 5th place now represents. Igor Belanovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312853715123370916.post-50289143613538148342014-12-08T21:39:20.227+00:002014-12-08T21:39:20.227+00:00I think it's generally accepted that Arsenal&#...I think it's generally accepted that Arsenal's persistently high rate of injuries is due to a combination of factors, rather than just bad luck or something in the tea.<br /><br />One factor is that Arsenal tend to overplay key players, rather than rotating (Koscielny is a current case in point). This is due to limited investment in 2nd choice players over the last 10 years, which has meant a greater burden on the first 11, most of whom are also internationals (and we do get a lot injured on international duty).<br /><br />In theory, this problem should ease now that the spending tap has been turned on, but building a squad in which two high-quality internationals vie for every position will take a while. If you want an alternative player you can confidently rotate, then you can't just buy another Squillaci. To my mind it is obvious that Wenger took back Flamini not because he wants to save a few bob, but because he's waiting on someone else.<br /><br />A second factor is that our style, emphasising possession and quick movement to feet around the penalty area, results in more impact tackles (see Wilshere's latest injury). Some claim that Wenger neglects strength work to focus on technique, which assumes a zero-sum relationship to robustness, but I don't buy this. An urgent passing game, unlike the more cautious version employed by Swansea, will stimulate more tackles (this is evident from the stats) and that in turn will result in more injuries.<br /><br />The third factor is the quality of the medical and physio staff at Arsenal, with claims that it all went downhill after Gary Lewin left and that Wenger is wedded to methods that were revolutionary in the 90s but are old hat now. The appointment of Shad Forsythe gives some credence to the former claim but simultaneously contradicts the latter. <br /><br />In sum, I think our problem has been over-playing due to a lack of squad depth, but I think that era is drawing to a close. We'll stay top of the league in terms of tackles against and injuries, but this should have less of an impact in future. Hopefully.David Timoneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03568348438980023320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312853715123370916.post-58629142194182836182014-12-08T20:29:26.782+00:002014-12-08T20:29:26.782+00:00Any thoughts on Wenger/Arsenal being prone to inju...Any thoughts on Wenger/Arsenal being prone to injury for some (as yet) undefined reason? I'm not sure the old explanation that they get kicked more still applies.Lukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14014996272817759191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312853715123370916.post-9011510293140402122014-12-08T17:45:46.968+00:002014-12-08T17:45:46.968+00:00I think Wenger has built more of a legacy than any...I think Wenger has built more of a legacy than any Arsenal manager since Herbert Chapman. I really can't see the style of play, which has been embedded from the youth teams upwards over the last 15 years, reverting to the negativity of late-period Graham. <br /><br />Though Arsenal have always been progressive in their attitude towards the off-pitch environment, I think Wenger's input to the new training centre, conditioning and diet are rightly seen as innovations (at least in the UK) that have been influential well beyond North London.<br /><br />It is interesting that you effectively equate "trophyless" with "failure", which I think has become a common view over the EPL era. Wenger may be pushing his luck claiming that finishing 4th is "like a trophy", but I suspect a lot of fans will find it a shock to the system once he leaves and the new broom struggles to match his consistency.David Timoneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03568348438980023320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312853715123370916.post-76711537030633800592014-12-08T16:13:08.190+00:002014-12-08T16:13:08.190+00:00I would be interested to see what Arsenal are like...I would be interested to see what Arsenal are like after Wenger leaves. Barcelona have managed to eradicate the fetish over the manager by having a club culture, which includes a style of play (I think this is probably more common on the continent).<br /><br />I get the impression that Mourinho is the antithesis of this, that he destroys any 'culture' and it all becomes about his particular 'genius', which doesn't stay long after he as left.<br /><br />If Wenger doesn't manage to leave any legacy but instead leaves an impression that Arsenal need to move on after the trophyless years then I think you have to say Wenger has been a failure. A manager like Wenger, if you believe the hype, should be all about creating a legacy, a standard that the club cannot drop.Herbie Kills Childrennoreply@blogger.com