tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312853715123370916.post5267931794677777022..comments2024-03-17T00:10:44.022+00:00Comments on From Arse To Elbow: Marriage GuidanceDavid Timoneyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03568348438980023320noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312853715123370916.post-33330436130200723262016-08-15T20:15:58.428+01:002016-08-15T20:15:58.428+01:00Yes, I thought you were quoting Edgar favourably! ...Yes, I thought you were quoting Edgar favourably! And I agree with your point about managerialism. I disagree with your optimism about the proles! I actually think the proles are bigoted because they are atomised and not one homogenous social block!<br /><br />Herbie Destroys the Environmentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312853715123370916.post-72084404119289925372016-08-15T19:20:41.737+01:002016-08-15T19:20:41.737+01:00Yes, I'm saying New Labour were authoritarian,...Yes, I'm saying New Labour were authoritarian, just like the traditional "Labourist" right, which can be seen in the current behaviour of their remnants.<br /><br />I think you've misunderstood that I was criticising David Edgar's claims. Those are his words you're quoting. I am sceptical of the whole realignment idea, which is invariably a centrist pipe-dream, not least because it relies on a belief in homogenous social blocks, such as bigoted proles.David Timoneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03568348438980023320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312853715123370916.post-6772687282584910612016-08-15T19:02:55.330+01:002016-08-15T19:02:55.330+01:00I am actually confused by this article. Are you sa...I am actually confused by this article. Are you saying New labour are authoritarian or not? And if they are who are the 'aspirational', 'liberal', 'globalised' wing of the Labour party? Or are you making the point that the 'aspirational', 'liberal', 'globalised' wing are really authoritarian and the labour base is really liberal? The base are not liberal!<br /><br /><br />"Similarly, the idea that the Tories are about to institute full-blown central planning or nationalise the railways simply because they have rehabilitated the term "industrial strategy" is delusional."<br /><br />Who the hell thought this?<br /><br />"You don't need to look far to find evidence that working class Labour voters aren't racist homophobes who overwhelmingly voted leave"<br /><br />You don't have to travel far to hear a racist comment in working class wards in any major town or city. I have yet to hear straight from the horse's mouth the articulate working class reason to vote leave.<br /><br />Herbie Destroys the Environmentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312853715123370916.post-49689015918395955822016-08-15T18:34:58.296+01:002016-08-15T18:34:58.296+01:00Reminds me a bit of twenty years ago, when ex-SDP ...Reminds me a bit of twenty years ago, when ex-SDP types like Marquand and Toynbee were hailing 'New Labour' as the opportunity to heal the 'progressive' void that was created when the Labour movement split definitively from the Liberals. Of course, they were to be somewhat disillusioned when Blair's managerialism turned out to be both too neoliberal and too authoritarian for their liking.<br /><br />I think recent events have proved your last paragraph exactly right. The Tories and the Labour right are both essentially managerial, but just tack in slightly different ways to try and keep an increasingly tenuous grip on their vote banks. The Labour right has always been eager to be part of the establishment, but their desperation to achieve this has been only too plain to see over the past year as the members have tried to drag it to a much more anti-elitist position. I suspect there could well be many Labour MPs who are almost desperate for a crisis over leaving the EU so they can become part of a fully managerialist national government. If Corbyn wins again it might be their best way out. Igor Belanovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312853715123370916.post-66095786227643469692016-08-15T18:11:16.386+01:002016-08-15T18:11:16.386+01:00I think this is completely wrong.
I would say New...I think this is completely wrong.<br /><br />I would say New labour and the Tories share the same authoritarian streak. The Tories like this because it helps control morality and promotes order, in the fascist sense and New labour argue it promotes security against the bad people. If you look at the policies in relation to internet security and government collection of online data then you would be hard pressed to know who is more authoritarian, the Tories or Labour’s so called 'aspirational', 'liberal', 'globalised' wing.<br /><br />Opposition to the big data culture and the use of it to spy on everyone has come from the Liberal democrats and the left.<br /><br />The centre of politics, which includes the hard right Tories and neo-liberal New Labour are singing from the same hym sheet where authoritarianism is concerned.<br /><br />It is why I see only dystopia. For example, New Labour bomb nations into submission, create displaced people everywhere, the result of this is some minimal violence against those who did the bombing, this minimal violence is used as an excuse to bring in all sorts of security measures. New labour and Tory types see how effective this is and hey prsto you have a template!Herbie Destroys the Environmentnoreply@blogger.com