tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312853715123370916.post8993701252279996729..comments2024-03-17T00:10:44.022+00:00Comments on From Arse To Elbow: The Postcapitalist ImaginaryDavid Timoneyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03568348438980023320noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312853715123370916.post-13432158418010136782015-07-27T14:00:34.911+01:002015-07-27T14:00:34.911+01:00In terms of intellectual history, I think you can ...In terms of intellectual history, I think you can see a thread that connects Mason and other left-postcapitalists via the utopian socialists of the early nineteenth century, as you rightly note, all the way back to Medieval millenarianism.<br /><br />The inheritance from utopian socialism includes the idea that technology may be inherently emancipatory (Owen's reformed factory, Fourier's phalanstery), and that the new challenge to society is the efficient administration of increasingly abundant resources, which echoes the thinking of Saint-Simon and Comte.<br /><br />The inheritance from millenarianism is not just one of style (the language of escape and salvation), but the assumption that social hierarchies will dissolve (hence his belief that monopolies "cannot last") and that peace and goodwill must break out 'coz Twitter (see his earlier book, 'Why it's All Kicking off'), which echoes the hopes invested in the printing press all those years ago.<br /><br />Whether for reasons of career (i.e. selling zeitgeisty books), or due to journalistic 'deformation professionelle' (he always seemed peculiary contorted on Newsnight), Mason has invested a lot in the emancipatory power of technology, and particulary the construct of the social network. Unfortunately, this continues the neoliberal project of dissolving the concept of class, replacing solidarity with affinity and the exercise of individual choice.David Timoneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03568348438980023320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312853715123370916.post-76452298549901184322015-07-27T10:59:50.537+01:002015-07-27T10:59:50.537+01:00Post capitalism is not something that Paul Mason i...Post capitalism is not something that Paul Mason invented and is among a number of writings that have appeared in recent years (include Rifkins zero marginal cost). The seeds of post capitalism go right back to the Utopian socialist ideas of the 19th century and to some extent logic grounded in Marxism or more precisely Hegel’s dialectic (quantitative changes result in qualitative changes). Even Keynes had his own brand of post capitalism. In some ways the argument that things will turn out alright in the end is the apologist’s view of capitalism, by its most reactionary elements. The right wing economists said that things will trickle down, just let the market do its thing and everyone will benefit eventually etc.<br /><br />Does this modern proliferation of post capitalist ideas represent a genuine reflection of society, a spontaneous response to current material conditions and a sign that something new is coming?<br /><br />The problem is that when the 19th century idealists were imaging their new worlds most of the world wasn’t capitalist. So Marx could imagine changes taking place within Western Europe and the USA. But today you can’t imagine changes in the USA and Europe without factoring in the rest of the world, as you indicate in the article. This is where I fear the post capitalists go wrong, they do not take enough account of the undeveloped world. So even if the developed West somehow managed to go to this post capitalist world it would be built on capitalist labour relations in the rest of the world, with many Western companies being involved in this exploitation. Though we should admit that 19th century capitalism was itself built on the slave trade.<br /><br />I certainly think the post capitalists are correct to say that quantitative changes have taken place that can only result in qualitative changes but the nature of this change may not be post capitalism but some form of authoritarian capitalism or even fascistic governments.<br /><br />Class struggle will determine how these qualitative changes manifest themselves. If you had asked me a year ago I would have been an absolute pessimist but today I think there are signs that these qualitative changes are beginning to impact on politics.<br /><br />Though in reality, as things stand, we are going in the opposite direction that post capitalism would say we should be going in, i.e. more austerity, less leisure time, more pressure and stress on the job. <br />Herbie Causes Extinctionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312853715123370916.post-83840689840511115502015-07-25T15:15:53.432+01:002015-07-25T15:15:53.432+01:00Well, do you hunt in the morning, fish in the afte...Well, do you hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner and then write blog posts before bed?Igor Belanovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312853715123370916.post-1630235172852053072015-07-25T12:31:41.890+01:002015-07-25T12:31:41.890+01:00I wonder; does the fact that my informational prod...I wonder; does the fact that my informational products have already reached a zero price-point make them more historically advanced that Mason's £16.99 opus?David Timoneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03568348438980023320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312853715123370916.post-36981216371329363242015-07-25T11:41:47.137+01:002015-07-25T11:41:47.137+01:00Yes, given the almost complete lack of historical ...Yes, given the almost complete lack of historical agency in Mason's 'postcapitalist revolution' it seems like technology has been placed in the void left by the 'feckless' proletariat's inability to overthrow the system. I think the productive-force determinism of the Mason piece was its biggest drawback. There are certainly many trends inherent in the development of technology and modern capitalism that create the potential for change, but without some kind of political project they will inevitably be used for the benefit of the current elites. If information was such an irresistible force for change then Gutenberg would have heralded a succesful social revolution centuries ago.<br /><br />Still, I'm glad that technology means I can read your 'book' for free in instalments on the internet ; )Igor Belanovnoreply@blogger.com